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How to fix Assaults. You will agree.

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10174	Posted - 2014.03.28 20:04:00 - [1] - Quote I disagree. Assaults are about offense, so bonuses should to weapons. They need more slots: [Request] Medium frame (basic/assault/logistics) changes KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: UPDATE: The 6 at STD, 7 at ADV, 8 at PRO mod slot plan would make mediums competitive, & slayer brick-tanked scouts won't be able to out-tank and outperform medium frames at their own jobs. There is no need to nerf scouts, simply raise mod slot count on medium suits and the brick-tanked scouts won't be an issue. This thread was created before the brick-taned scout problem, but I strongly believe my proposed slot layout solution for mediums will solve the issue. Read on, I will explain. There are big problems with the medium frame slot layouts that need to be addressed. "Too long; didn't read" (TL;DR) version on post 2 (click here). [Assault & logistics issues] Slayer logi issue originates from the logis to tank more HP than their assault counterparts, allowing them to be more survivable killing platforms. This problem won't truly go away until the slots are handled correctly, just right now brick-tank scouts are bigger issue. Logis sacrifice sidearms, mobility, & base HP in exchange for for 2-3 more equipment (equip) slots than their assault counterparts. That seems like a fair deal, but on top of the 2 or 3 more equip slots, there is some crazy weirdness with the slot layouts that leads to imbalance. - At standard (STD) tier all logis (with the odd exception of the Amarr (Am) one) have inferior module (mod) slot layouts compared to the STD assault counterparts. - Advanced (ADV) tier logis either get equal or superior mod slot layouts compared to their ADV assault counterparts. - Prototype (PRO) tier logis all gain an extra low slot than their PRO assault counterpart, the caldari one also gains an extra high slot also. Summary: logis underpowered (UP) at STD tier, balanced or overpowered (OP) at ADV, & all OP at PRO. No reason for the Caldari (Cal) logi only having 2 equip at STD instead of 3; it isn't gaining anything extra compared to other STD logis or its assault counterpart for the sacrifice. The STD Cal logi is UP even compared to the other UP STD logis. There is also the issue of the Am medium slot layouts. 1.8 has Am mediums shifting from hybrid tanking (equal shields & armor) to predominantly having armor; this requires a slot layout change of more low slots for effective armor tanking. Right now the progression of Am mediums is odd, they start with more high slots (2 at militia (MLT) & STD). AM assault has less mod slots than other assaults. Yes it has a tiny 30 more base HP than the Caldari and Gallente assault, a small advantage already countered by being the slowest assault. It should be noted that the Amarr scout, Amarr sentinel, and Amarr commando also has more base HP compared to the other races' dropsuits of the same roles, yet these other Amarr suits aren't forced to give up a slot; they shouldn't have to give up a slot, and neither should the Amarr assault since the extra HP is already balanced by the speed loss. This problem makes the AM assault suffer the most from the brick-tanked scout problem, since the AM scout has more mod slots at STD-ADV than the assault, and same mod slot count at PRO; this allows the AM scout to surpass the AM assault in HP, while being faster, having a 2nd equip, stealthier, etc. [Basic medium frame issues] Give basic frames a purpose, in 1.8 there is 36 STD-PRO basic frames; way too many suits in the game to have be completely useless; useless because they're inferior versions of the specialized suits (ex: assaults, scouts, etc), & they can't even be used as a way to save money since they cost the same as the specialized suits; there is no reason to use a basic frame after unlocking specialization. We should never have 36 items that are worthless. For more on the basic frame issue go here. Basic mediums should be generalized middle-ground between the assault & logi, it would make the assault truly specialized by comparison instead of just being basic frames with bonuses added. It would also give players the ability to test-drive both assault & logi roles before specializing; right now you can test out the assault role with a basic medium, but can't test a logi role with their parent basic frame. Current set up is bad for testing roles. [Solution] Part 1: assault & logi Give the Cal logistics 3 equip slots at STD. Also 4 equip at PRO (reduce mod slot from 9 to 8 in exchange). Give all assaults the same number of mod slots. Equalize the mod slot layouts for assaults & logis of the same race & tier: Assault & logi STD (high/low) Am: 2/4 Ga: 2/4 Ca: 4/2 (+1 equip for logi) Min: 3/3 Assault & logi ADV Am: 2/5 Ga: 3/4 Ca: 5/2 Min: 4/3 Assault & logi PRO Am: 3/5 Ga: 3/5 Ca: 5/3 (+1 equip for logi) Min: 4/4 Part 2: basic medium frames To fix the aforementioned issue, basic medium frames should have: One more equip for a total of 2; this is why the Cal & Am STD logis should have at least 3 to start out with, it is to differentiate them from my proposed basic mediums. 1 less mod slot than their assault & logi counterparts. This is a tradeoff for more mod slots. Basic medium MLT (high/low/equip) Am: 2/2/2 Ga: 1/3/2 Ca: 3/1/2 Min: 2/1/2 Basic medium STD Am: 2/3/2 Ga: 2/3/2 Ca: 3/2/2 Min: 3/2/2 Basic medium ADV Am: 2/4/2 Ga: 2/4/2 Ca: 4/2/2 Min: 3/3/2 Basic medium PRO Am: 3/4/... Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10174	Posted - 2014.03.28 20:08:00 - [2] - Quote Also, I like the Minmatar and Amarr assault bonuses, they're great (when they work, skill bonuses have been buggy in 1.8). I would have put that in my original reply, but used up all characters with that quote. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10174	Posted - 2014.03.28 20:11:00 - [3] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: @ KAGEHOSHI your proposal turns assaults into half-assed logis and doesn't do much to differentiate the assault. Small CPU/PG bonuses so we can more effectively use all the slots we have and a second grenade slot is what I would like to see. How the hell would it turn them into haf-assed logis? I'm not suggesting giving assaults equipment slots, I suggested giving them more module slots. Did you even read it? Don't you think a Caldari assault starting with 4 high slots and 2 low slots at standard tier would be great? EDIT: A second grenade slot would be bad; not all assaults use grenades, or want to. Second, there is no mechanic to cycle between grenades. I use an assault suit, and I sure as hell don't think more grenades would be a desirable fix. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10174	Posted - 2014.03.28 20:20:00 - [4] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: @ KAGEHOSHI your proposal turns assaults into half-assed logis and doesn't do much to differentiate the assault. Small CPU/PG bonuses so we can more effectively use all the slots we have and a second grenade slot is what I would like to see. How the hell would it turn them into haf-assed logis? I'm not suggesting giving assaults equipment slots, I suggested giving them more module slots. Did you even read it? Don't you think a Caldari assault starting with 4 high slots and 2 low slots at standard tier would be great? It would be great but it doesn't differentiate between the Logistic or Assault suit at all. It is basically "You can have a sidearm or you can have more PG/CPU and 2 more equipment." It doesn't have Assaults being able to do anything better than anyone else, meaning they have no niche. Assaults are about weapon offense (same way commandos are, but more emphasis on speed), changing the bonuses to be more about tanking than weapon use would actually further diminish their role, not strengthen it. EDIT: Oops, confused you for the OP. There are already things to differentiate the assault from the logi. Aside from the sidearm, assault has more speed, more stamina, more base HP. You can't really expect them to be that different considering they're from the same frame size. A second grenade slot would be bad; not all assaults use grenades, or want to. Second, there is no mechanic to cycle between grenades. I use an assault suit, and I sure as hell don't think more grenades would be a desirable fix. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10176	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:15:00 - [5] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: @ KAGEHOSHI your proposal turns assaults into half-assed logis and doesn't do much to differentiate the assault. Small CPU/PG bonuses so we can more effectively use all the slots we have and a second grenade slot is what I would like to see. How the hell would it turn them into haf-assed logis? I'm not suggesting giving assaults equipment slots, I suggested giving them more module slots. Did you even read it? Don't you think a Caldari assault starting with 4 high slots and 2 low slots at standard tier would be great? It would be great but it doesn't differentiate between the Logistic or Assault suit at all. It is basically "You can have a sidearm or you can have more PG/CPU and 2 more equipment." It doesn't have Assaults being able to do anything better than anyone else, meaning they have no niche. Assaults are about weapon offense (same way commandos are, but more emphasis on speed), changing the bonuses to be more about tanking than weapon use would actually further diminish their role, not strengthen it. EDIT: Oops, confused you for the OP. There are already things to differentiate the assault from the logi. Aside from the sidearm, assault has more speed, more stamina, more base HP. You can't really expect them to be that different considering they're from the same frame size. A second grenade slot would be bad; not all assaults use grenades, or want to. Second, there is no mechanic to cycle between grenades. I use an assault suit, and I sure as hell don't think more grenades would be a desirable fix. I had forgotten we do not have a mechanism to switch grenades, that would have to be added. With only being able to carry 2 grenades even double stacking locus grenades wouldn't make 'nade spam too bad. I just think it would be neat to be able to equip fluxes and locus grenades or locus and av. Not too mention I would like to see at least 1 more grenade type like a chaff grenade that takes down cloaks and passive scanners for some time. I don't dislike your ideas for improving assaults I just have a different view of them. To me they are the generalists and being able to have different types of grenades makes them more versatile just like being able to have a light weapon of one damage type and a side arm of another increases battlefield versatility. I would prefer if a new specialization got multiple grenade slots. Also, its not that the assaults aren't specialized enough, its that the basic frames aren't generalized enough. Like I explained in my giant giant quote, basic frames are not generalized enough to to make their specialized counterparts truly specialized by comparison. This not only applies to the basic medium and assault, but also to the basic heavy and sentinel, and basic light and scout. Basic mediums need to be a middle-ground between assaults and logis. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

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